Do Native Americans Have Proof Positive of Noah's Great Flood?
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There are a few people who refuse to believe the authenticity of the Great Flood as told in the Bible. They go to great lengths to convince others to do likewise. I can’t join their ramks. I know it is true. I lived in Arizona as a child. I know the home of the Pima, Maricopa, Pueblo, Navajo and Hopi. I have been down into the Grand Canyon and up Superstition Mountain west of Tucson. The evidence of the ancient flood is there in the geography and the history of the people.
Scientist say the Colorado River eroded the Grand Canyon over time. That rock is too hard. There is no other river that ever dug a trench like that in a million years. The Native Americans claim that “The Earth Doctor” (creator of the world) pierced the ground with his “stick” and let the waters loose from underground. Is it possible that the canyon was super-hydro-sandblasted in less than forty days from the water released from far below the ground?
They were mean and hateful . . .
The Maricopa, who lived near Superstition Mountain, have a flood story in their tradition. They say the “Earth Doctor” made people from clay. The people did not show his spirit of kindness and love. They were mean and hateful to one another. They made trouble constantly and never did what was good or right. One day, the Earth Doctor told the dreamy moon and the blazing sun to go away and not return for forty days. It had never rained. The earth was like a terrarium. The Earth Doctor pulled the sky down and it began to rain. It rained like no one has seen since.
Water kept rising until the ground seemed to be sinking. The birds began to cry, but the dog barked and soothed them, “If you keep crying, you will only add to the flood.” The birds regained their composure and flew high in the sky and pulled with all their might on the sky with their beaks. It was no use. The rain kept falling. The earth people panicked and ran to climb Superstition Mountain. They were so evil that they pushed and shoved each other with reckless abandon. The flood continued to force them higher. The people were so bent on saving themselves that they trampled the children, the elderly and the infirm. The Earth Doctor was so incensed that the children were trampled that he said a word and the fleeing people turned to stone in their place.
Famous Native American artist Ted DeGrazia
- :: DeGrazia GALLERY IN THE SUN ::
Web Site for Native American artist Ted DeGrazia (Gallery in the Sun)
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ORIGINAL TED DEGRAZIA WATERCOLOR PAINTING
Current Bid: $1250.00
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Ted DeGrazia Troopers West Orig Watercolor Limited #68/100 Ray Brande 1970
Current Bid: $849.99
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WESTERN ARTIST Ted DeGrazia LOS NINOS PAINTING Gallery In The Sun TUCSON 1960s
Current Bid: $8.95
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You can go there today and still see them petrified in motion on the pinnacle of Superstition Mountain. If you know where to look, you can see the foamy high water mark that the flood left. The Pima are an unrelated tribe that lived mainly south and east of there. They take the legend one step further and say that the “Righteous Shaman” and his wife took shelter in a tar ball from a fir tree and survived the flood.
It is interesting that the Maricopa and Pima are so peaceful and friendly. When the Italian (not Spanish) Jesuit priest, Father Kino first encountered them, he marveled at their open and receptive heart. These descendants of Noah had learned their lesson.
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Maricopa gathering dinner and enjoying the view.
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Native American Lore
If you are interested in Native American lore. I have included a link to one of the better sources. I have it set for this area, but you may want to check out others as well. I hope you take time to enjoy a study. It is part of the heritage of America.
Link
- Pima and Papago Legends (Akimel and Tohono O\'odham)
Index of O'odham (Pima and Papago) Indian legends, folktales, and mythology.
 | Amazon Price: $8.83 List Price: $18.00 |
 | Amazon Price: $9.90 List Price: $29.95 |
If you liked that, you will love this!
- Comanche
WD Curry 111 conveys a story told by an old Texas rancher. The story stimulates interest in the history of the Comanche and provides links and other sources of information as well as a few related products.
Native (First Nation) Americans
Do you think the First Nation Americans are treated fairly today?
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Hello, WD,
This is a useful, awesome, beautiful and interesting post. And I, too, believe that the "big flood" really did happen.
Thank you very much writing and publishing this piece because for me, it was very inspirational and educational.
Another good hub showing excellent research and critical thought. Keep up the good work.
Great hub, I live in Arizona and can see the Superstition Mountains from my front yard. I have looked at the Grand Canyon and wonder how long it would take a river to cut those canyons. I'm not positive about the Great Flood, but am pretty darn sure it wasn't just a river that did this.
Thanks for the link. I haven't had time to read much of it but have it bookmarked for late night reading. Some interesting stuff in there.
Absolutely believe in the flood. I also believe in you after reading this excellent hub and viewing the beautiful pictures. Well done! Voted UP.
vocalcoach~
Hey ya'll! Thanks for stopping by. The flood was world wide. There are "tribal" accounts everywhere. The Pima And Maricopa are wonderful people who managed to thrive in the Sonora Desert. Give it a try. You will not survive for one day. They knew something special. Still do.
My main goal is to soften up the cynics. Sometimes their personal rejection of the faith of others is obnoxious. They need to lighten up and realize . . . It's all good. I doubt if anyone will change their beliefs. That's okay with me. A change in attitude would be refreshing. Why obsess over someone else's religion, unless you are the next one up for human sacrifice.
Informative , Thank you for sharing, especially your belief God Is great every time.
Blessings
Sky9106, you are a good soul. I am honored by your interest and encouragement. Your work is unique and compelling. Blessings for you is my prayer.
Hi WD. Thank you for the interesting and informative article. Here's the URL for a website that describes a couple of coins from Phrygia, both nearly 2,000 years old, depicting the flood story and even displaying Noah's name in Greek.
annlynn9 Wow! It reminds me of how some folks always insist that the teachings of Jesus were predated by earlier notables like Zoroaster, Siddhartha, Confucius, etc. The bible says that the wisdom of Solomon went throughout the world. None of these brilliant, wise, and gracious men predate Solomon.
I doubt if the coins will change any minds, but it is fun for us to see the evidence. It is one more reminder of what we already know. Thankyou so much for presenting the link, I need to come visit more often.
This is a very interesting and fascinating story. I woull doubt that a river could cause that much damage to the canyon.
A great informative hub. Thank you for sharing
Nice hub voted interesting. Another great proof of the authenticity of the Bible. I am glad you shared it here at Hubpages. Remain blessed. Best regards.
up, useful, and interesting article. I knew water carved the Grand Canyon, but I didn't know anything about the two being related. Interesting. This is a good logical article. Very interesting/
I love you guys. The first time I heard the story was from Ted (Zeek) DeGrazia. My Mom is an artist. She would drag me to museums and galleries everywhere we lived (Air Force). She had us learn about our new place. It made us feel like part of the community to fall in love with it. Funny, we liked everyplace we lived. It can be a wonderful world if you learn how to see it. Mr. DeGrazia was nice enough to spend a little time with me, because I was so taken with his work. The watercolor is from a signed book he gave me.
There appears to be evidence earthwide that such a catacylism did in fact occur. Scientists are dishonest when they spend so much time trying to prove as mere coincidence circumstances that must make us all believe that there is some kind of pattern that support an occurance that many want to say is supernatural and fable. Great Article WD, Cred2
I thought with the introduction of the interesting button my life was complete but after I read this hub I began wishing for an amazing button. The Native American people interest me very much and I find it amazing that there are accounts of a world wide flood among them as well as other peoples all across the earth. Your told their flood tale well and I enjoyed seeing the art as well.
credence2 - I don't know if the scientists are purposely lying, but they have difficulty accepting something that they can't prove with the scientific method. It is odd that they often settle for unproven theories as fact in their text books.
North Wind - you aren't cold at all. The Native Americans have so much to offer about how to live in North America. The European's ethnocentrism has cost us a wealth. Maybe it isn't too late.
WD, wow! I had not heard this particular story and it is amazing. It's awesome to see how many here on HP believe in the flood, too. Science really does support the Bible and I appreciate your hub that gives this good information.
I know. The fossil record also supports the flood. Proving the flood to a cynic is difficult at best and maybe a waste of time. Proving that God can change a heart is much harder to deny. You keep up your good work of making it real.
This is a well researched hub. Thanks for sharing.
You came a long way to visit. You got me thinking about floods, brother.
Flood is bad my brother. Its not a good thing to experience.
I know. Even after the water recedes there are still problems. When we had 4 hurricanes come through in short succession, we had water everywhere. The sewage backed up. After it was dry, children and footbal players got life threatening infections from scrapes they got from playing on the grass.
Hey, WD, GREAT read! Amazing info and lay-out. Loved the graphics and text. Voted up and all across. I admire your talent. What a high IQ you must have. You might want, at this point, to reply in an humble manner, and that is fine, but seriously, YOU are SUPER-INTELLIGENT to write something as thorough and precise as this. No wonder that I have just become a fan and follower of YOU. Sincerely...KENNETH AVERY
Excellent hub and very interesting.....I too, believe that God did exactly as He says He did. This helps confirm such.
CMerritt...yes. You are right. No arguement here.
Great hub! I loved your comment that appeared after vocalcoach, especially the part where you said, "Why obsess over someone else's religion, unless you are the next one up for human sacrifice." That was funny. Never thought it out that far. But yes, I agree with that whole comment 100%.
While reading you wonderful hub, I had a thought. What if the Grand Canyon was a result of one of places that God opened up the fountains of the deep. Just a thought.
And yes I do believe in the flood. Great hub.
WD - you might want to fix a typo in this otherwise wonderful hub... Under the picture, watercolor by Native American artist Ted DeGrazia, you typed Superstation Mountain.
Please delete this comment.
homestead bound - The canyon thought is a good one. I might need to go back and stress it better. That is what the Native Americans in that part of the world claim. I really appreciate any editing advice, so don't hold back. I am a production editor (nearly a ghost writer) for a couple of folks. It doesn't hurt to have a smart person clean up after me.
kenneth avery and CMerrit - glad you came by, I like your stuff too. I think I might like it here. I have had a rough go of getting published the old fashioned way. Editors change and there is too much traffic. Thanks for the encouragement. I don't want to get "stuck in a rut".
...well WD - this is proof positive that all of your hard work and keen research shall see the light of day on my sacred Facebook page with a direct link back here and thanking you for inspiring me with a subject which would be at home on the syndicated radio show COAST TO COAST AM with George Norrie .... check out their website if unfamiliar and listen to their talk radio show if you can
lake erie time ontario canada 4:39pm
epigramman - I appreciate the comment and respect your opinion. I especially appreciate the PR, since I am remedial at networking and marketing. I am a production guy and have had the most success with good management and secretarial support. Alas, I am on my own. I will definitely check out the show. I'm sure I'll like it.
Now do we believe that Noah took all those Animals and Family and they didn't KILL each other during those 40 Days and 40 nights...Mmm, that could be a Hub for me...Anyway, I too, believe there was a Flood. Good, Good, Hub, WD.
b. Malin - I can't wait to read it! It must have been a miracle. Not the animals as much as the family. Whether one accepts the flood or not. The Maricopa are a wonderful people and this is a beautiful legend. It is a perfect legend, since you can stand and point to the evidence.
You are an artist. Loved the photos in this narrative - very well done.
Ted DeGrazia artwork is outstanding.
I need no proof of the flood - never doubted it. Good information.
The rainbow was given as a sign that God would never again subject us to this tragedy.
That's right. I don't know if that is covered in Maricopa or Pima Lore. They don't see a lot of rainbows in that part of the country, but when they do, they are spectacular. If you did a painting of one you saw in that desert, they would call you a liar.
I've always admired the child-like way Native Americans explain their world. Their version of how the Grand Canyon was formed is as plausible as any by a scientist with a doctorate...and infinitely more enjoyable!
btw, have you read "Seven Arrows" by Hieronymus Somebody? (I probably spelled the first name wrong, but have no idea where the book is hiding at the moment.) I love love LOVE the story of the Jumping Mouse! ;D
On your recommendation, I will find it. The link to the Native American lore is rich.
It's almost coffee table size, but not quite a doorstop (as they say in publishing). The Jumping Mouse story is in sections spread throughout the book. At one time, at the request of a friend, I copied out each section and typed them up as one long story, but have no idea what I did with my copy of it. Guess I'll just have to dig through the bookshelves, locate the book and read it again! lol!
i bet I can find one. Maybe your friend still has their copy.
Alas, my friend died last year, and I have no idea what happened to his things. Just easier to re-read the book and make a new copy of "Jumping Mouse". ;D
William D. Curry III, your well-researched hub made me remember a National Geographic article about another possible scene of the great flood. Scientists believe that the Black Sea, Sea of Marmara and the Bosporus Strait have really strange characteristics that point out to a very sudden and heavy and fatal flooding about 8,000 years ago. Well, nothing has been proven yet but their topic really caught my interest, the same way that your hub about the beliefs of Maricopa interests me.
Being a Muslim, I believed the story of Noah. Although some people deny the fact, still there are proof of the existence of Noah. Good hub!
kerlynb - thank you for paying a visit from so far away. I am glad you mentioned the Maricopa, since my main concern was to show the beauty of their lore and their open hearts. You know about that.
wanzulfikri - One of faith is never swayed by one without it. It is an honor to have you share. I will be seeing more of you.
kerlynb - thank you for paying a visit from so far away. I am glad you mentioned the Maricopa, since my main concern was to show the beauty of their lore and their open hearts. You know about that.
wanzulfikri - One of faith is never swayed by one without it. It is an honor to have you share. I will be seeing more of you.
If you already read the series called The Crusaders (one of my older hubs), it included a factual photo of the ark, taken in the 1920s.
These comic series changed my belief and cling to the factual evidences in the Bible.
travel_man came a long way to see me. I will read your works.
The best factual evidence of the awesome power of God is a changed and loving heart. I will be seeing you soon, brother.
Every Single religion or culture has a story about the flood. I have never heard this one before though. Bless
I'm glad I could tell it. Thanks for coming by. I need the bless.
There is much evidence of the great flood all over the earth. When my children were small, we went treasure hunting and found many, many trilobite fossils in fresh gravel near our home. This gravel was taken from a pit that was nowhere near an ocean. So, that is proof that the pit was once at the bottom of a large body of water.
Levertis Steele - Thanks for sharing that. There are places in Mississippi where the fossil record is all mixed up from our calendar of the ancient past. No theory, just interesting. Glad you stopped by for a visit. I will see you soon. Put some corn bread on for me. Save some chewy mints for desert.
just a wonderful hub
Awesome, beautiful, interesting all the way! Thanks for finding me on hubpages and following, so I can follow back. The presentation here could easily be a story book with illustrations. The bible stories may be read in many ways including allegory, symbolic or actually happening in the space-time continuum. Anything is possible in G-d's world. The most important outcome is a lesson learned by the human race and G-d's promise, shown by the rainbow, that he won't destroy the earth by water again. But, you better watch out because there are many other ways that we can destroy ourselves. Blessings, Debby
Yes, Debbie Bruck- I have tried several. I am still here. I am glad that you liked the article. You highlighted the highlights.
You are now sparkling and glowing in the sunshine of highlights!
Great hub filled with fantastic and informative facts. I have traveled in Az, visiting many of the historical parks and preserves. Thanks for posting this and God Bless!
must65gt - I appreciate comments like that from one I respect as much as you. Blessings right back at you.
Fascinating tale! Thanks!
This is a very convincing Hub. I have always believed the story of the flood and maybe this will help the non believers change their mind about the great flood and that it was world wide.Thanks for the chance to read the truth not some made up story that is very hard to believe.
clara kish - I will vote for you for president. anon beliver may not be convinced, but I hope they can still enjoy the legend that the Maricopa tell about things on their side of the world.
A well compiled hub. Interesting to here tales of the flood from other parts of the world
I thought so, too. I heard it from the artist, Ted DeGrazia, first. He pointed out that it is a perfect legend, since you can stand and point to the evidence. If you ever visit there and see the rocks, it is uncanny how they look like people frozen in terror.
WD, what a fascinating story. I believe in the flood. It's interesting to read another version of it. Up and interesting.
It is a very interesting story. Many cultures have a story about it. The fact that they vary doesn't diminish the possibility of the actuality. Verbal communications always get distorted as theey are passed on.
I love myths and legends. Almost always they are weaved around actual events embellished a lot of the time with symbolism that is thick with mystery. I have never doubted the Noah story. Your writing is absolutely engaging. It transports me!
Our Maori culture have many myths and legends but I don't remember one about the flood? Many stories are found in carvings or carved into totem poles. Weaved patterns were another form of story telling. The most popular form of keeping historical events were by way of "Moteatea" a kind of mix between singing, chanting and dramatic speech. Some Moteatea can recite lineage way back to our source... Its amazing how ancient cultures (not only ours) were very resourceful.
Thanks for the excellent article. Arizona looks like a beautiful and peaceful place to visit!
Arizona is holy ground. It has been a well know fact for eons. It is too bad that we are desecrating it.
Maori culture is fascinating. The Maori prince was my favorite character in Mobi Dick. The All Blacks scare the hell out of the other team with their pre-game ritual. You would have to tell me what it is called.
This was great! I didn't know the native americans had a flood story! Isn't it interesting that most cultures and people all over the world tell an account for a world wide flood or at least a flood that completely swallowed their world.
Voted up sir, I hope to one day figure out how to write hubs as informitive as you do! :) Peace and love my friend.
Capt. Redbeard. Your hubs are great. I love them. You keep it real. I have worked with publications for years. You should see what can be done with a real graphics friendly program.
And awesome. I keep forgetting the "awesome" option. Keeps me thinking I'm about to head to an "excellent adventure" with either Bill or Ted. But awesome. Glad I'm a fan now!
Hi :)
I think that there was at least one great flood in our ancient past, and I think that it has been included in the folklore of many people ~ and is probably the basis of the story of Noah's flood.
Maybe it related to the melt at the end of an ice age. Maybe there was an asteroid, or a huge volcanic eruption, followed by tsunamis.
I don't know ~ there are various suggestions.
I don't think, though, that the Bible's explanation of it being God's punishment for man's sins is true.
Finally, someone who just appreciates the beautiful legend of the Maricopa. It is not hard to believe that people were mean, though. It is not really proof positive of anything other than the fact that the Maricopa are beautiful people who accomplished an attitude of cooperation and peace within their community and with all outsiders. If a child was behaving inappropriately, the elders would point to the stone figures on the mountain as a warning. It was better than a spanking.
I think most people that don't accept the Biblical account missed a good story and a chance to learn of Ted DeGrazia, a renouned American artist.
I will be by for a visit.
Yes indeed it is sad when we desecrate holy places.
I have never heard that story of the Maori prince and mobi dick...wonder if I can google it?
The pre-ritual to the All blacks game is known as The Haka. Commonly thought of as only a war dance. In relation to rugby and loosely translated it can mean this.
"We are the All Blacks, of the New Zealand people."
"We stand on this field arrayed for battle."
"At our backs we feel the might of tradition wrought by those who have gone before."
"Over our hearts we bear the Silver Fern, emblem of mana to die for."
"This challenge is now thrown out to you. Take it if you dare for we will not withold ourselves this day and the faint of heart will surely be lost."
Whiti te ra! Hi!
Heres a link to that translation if you're interested.
Wow!!! Thanks! We are growing in our appreciation of the game. I notice a similarity in our cultures. Both have been derived from the clinically ethnocentric English, who displaced the native culture without a second thought. Here in North America, the "First Nation" stuck with their tradition. They knew how to flourish in the wild environments. It was a big part of their religion to "leave a soft footprint".
They were ripe for acceptiing the gospel from their own prophesies. Because of them, they allowed the Europeans to live. The Europeans dropped the ball by assuming the natives were demonic (too apostate for redemption) and holding to their Greco-Roman concept of conquering the environment. The Native Americans did not know much of serious illness. They were in robust health before the Europeans brought the diseases that they bore from their close association with domesticated animals and filthy living conditions. The Europeans missed their chance to expand their spiritual base. They had lost the awareness that the creation is holy. God gave them a chance at renewal, and they blew it.
Now we name our teams after the noble warriors, like the Florida State Seminoles (a tribe). When activists of political correctness sued in federal court to make Florida State drop the "derogatory" title , the Seminoles stepped in. They pointed out that they were proud to be honored in such a way. At the time, Florida State had been undefeated for quite some time. The Seminoles reminded the court that they were undefeated as well. They never surrendered to the Americans like every other tribe. They skirmished with the Army in the scrub and swamps of Florida, until the Americans grew weary and withdrew.
Moby Dick is an American classic. It is required to reading. Being an American, I assume everyone in the world has read the book. Duh
hi WD, I have been to the grand "navel" or "womb" twice really an awesome sight to behold. Scientists do say that there were great floods at the end of the last ice age when the ice dams broke. im not sure if any think the grand canyon received any of this. in europe and asia minor the great flood may have been the black sea filling up about 8,000 yrs ago. great floods for sure. I have visited many native american sites all over the US. I even collected bison hair on my trip to the badlands national park in ND. I found a spear point on a beach in new york city. it must have laid their for hundreds of years waiting for me to pick it up. I found tiny ears of corn in a cliff house near where geronimo was born. my guess they were over 500 yrs old. I marveled at them and then left them out of respect. part of me wishes the new world was never found. the people were at one w nature as it should be. yes your right WD to seek is to find. this is really nice hub and it makes me yearn for more. thumbs up!!
Great comment! I like that you left the corn. You get around. I appreciate the flood info. I was thinking out loud about the Grand Canyon. I don't know of any scientists who have made the same conjecture. It may not be long before we are back to a primitive state.
I agree. The gradual formation of the Grand Canyon solely by natural process over millions of years seems every bit as difficult or fantastic to conceive as the prospect of a world wide flood. If I were desperate to believe otherwise, the only way I could conceive it being formed otherwise would have been from maybe a weakened place in the curst of the earth; perhaps between two adjacent tectonic plates that separated? Most expanations just don't seem plausible to me.
I remember once watching a segment on Discovery or maybe it was Nat Geo that dealt with the ice age. The simulation basically showed a world-wide glacier that covered the entire oblate spheroid we call earth...which left me wondering, how can rational people accept this but refuse the prospect of a world-wide flood as unscientific? Maybe it's just me, but it seems as if large glaciers covering the earth would substantiate a world-wide flood?
I enjoyed your Hub. The preponderence of creation and flood 'myths' from every major culture would at least make me take a second thought as one more bit of evidence of a world-wide flood.
hello again WD, Well you were right the colorado river did not carve the grand womb. this may not be as colorful as the peoples story of the grand womb but as far as geologists go the most accepted theory is that around 6 million years ago during an ice age phase of warming the gulf of mexico poured into the drainage of the ancient colorado and probably carved a whole lot of what we see today. about 2 million years ago the plateau lifted 2 miles up and volcanic dams formed creating lakes over and over up to 2,000 ft. deep maybe 13 times so that also = tremendous erosion about 1.2 million years ago. so there was a whole lot of flooding going on and on and on. the black sea basin flooding around 8,000 yrs ago is almost a done deal and its a good candidate for being the flood of the noahs ark in the bible. apparently the ice ages ending caused great massive floods thru pre-historic times over and over throughout the world. and i owe this research to your hub WD cause it left me scratching my head.
Good stuff, Chip, thank you!
A scholarly DVD has been produced by the Institute For Creation Research, and one I highly recommend, called "Grand Canyon: Monument To The Flood".
Excellent commentary and scientific evidence that is presented "on the spot" by a handful of geologists, all of whom are experts in the field and all hold Ph.D's to boot.
Shifting gears somewhat, I read years ago about huge dinosaur graveyards, some surrounding hills and small mountains. As I read about these dino graveyards a question lingered: Why are all these creatures found so close together in such huge masses?
It dawned on me that when flood waters rise, animals instictively gravitate toward higher ground. That is precisely why all these creatures were found where they were, with the most dominant beasts taking the highest ground.
Best wishes - L.R.
jimagain, gconeyhiden and Lone Ranger. I left comments for you guys last week, but they disappeared. I want my money back.
Let me say, you are all on a similar track and I appreciate the feedback and new info. I'll be checking it out.
What a wonderful and interesting hub! My great grandfather, Pete Gann, was credited with naming Superstition Mountain but in all of my genealogy research of the area I never heard this story.
I goofed...Pete named Haunted Canyon and not the Superstition Mountain. A senior moment by Auntie D.
That's okay Auntie D. I have been calling Superstition Mountain, "Mystery Mountain", for years. I got out my Ted DeGrzzia book for this Hub and said, "Duh!"
Mystery mountain is another mountain in New Mexico that draws people to it. That mountain was the holy ground of another tribe altogether.
Please tell me more of Haunted Canyon, and Pete. Three of these places = one Hub.
i like the way you used the american side of the wrold as your proff since they would not have had any knowledge of the bible so its like another account of the flood from a totally different source, well done :)
That's right, but it wasn't intentional. I'll pretend like it was and take credit for being clever. I just wanted to tell the story. It made its own connections.
Anthropologists will tell you there is a story of a great flood in almost every culture. Kind of makes you think it just might have happened. And if it did, wouldn't every culture be effected on such a grand scale that the story of it would become a fixture in their history? Great topic!
Yes, Kathleen Cochran, it is interesting and fun to think about. If a flood of that magnitude hit, it would definitely make news.
oh it happened all right many times over in different parts of the world at different times the real question is how much of the Noah story is accurate history and how much of it is cultural myth. personally I think it is one of the most beautiful stories of the bible because Noah is told to save the creatures of the earth and that lesson is VERY important in this day and age when many species are being threatened w extinction. But i think its a myth he went around collecting all these animals but its a very nice thought. he probably rounded up his goats,chickens,dogs ect as anyone would if they had a boat big enough. the bible doesnt actually agree on the actual story..in one version he took 7 of every animal but that was tossed out for the more reasonable two number. anyway animals have to poop so it must have been one really stinky boat and Noah and his family probably were very happy to get their feet on dry land again. the peoples of ancient america must have witnessed some amazing things over the course of the thousands of years they were here in the new world. its a shame many of their cultural sites have been sacrificed to developement. it would be nice if the US govt issued commemorative coins or stamps featuring our native peoples and took the profits from the sales and donated the money to the more needy tribes. maybe obama will like the idea..i hope so.
gconeyhiden - thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject. I will have to look it up, but I think the animals just came walking in on their own. That could be in the movie, though. You know the book is always better.
Apparently, the Maricopa and Pima took the hint better than most of the world and became sweet people. Noah and his crew started right off acting crazy again.
I like your idea about the Native Americans. We should do something!
Hi curry, i think if my memory serves me well these people of the tribes you mention were great artists and made and still make very fine pottery highly valued today. some people dont realize how civilized these people really were. any people would fight for their land if need be. I read many times how the Hopi to avoid confrontation would pour corn on the ground as a warning not to come any further as secret ceremonies were taking place. I was thrilled and honored to see some of these communities and very thankful they still exist to this day. these ancient native communities are a must see if touring out west. Lets all write the president on the commemorative idea. Id love to see this happen!!!
gconeyhiden - you are absolutely right. I moved a lot (Air Force family) and lived in Texas and Arizona where Mom took us around to the old ruins and Spanish missions and all. I loved the pueblos. They had such a good view from their porches. The experience is very enriching.
The Hopis are a trip. The Pima and Maricopa never fought for their land. No one was as comfortable in the desert. They believed they were created specifically to live there. They welcomed strangers, but could be skillful warriors. They had to defend themselves from the Apaches, who had a raiding culture. If their family was in need then they took what they need. The Pima have a legend "Why the Apaches are so Fierce". I will tell it soon.
Their pottery is outstanding and they are masters at the art of glazing.
Thanks for your interest and outstanding comments!
Hi again, I know some Pueblo tribes resisted the spanish when they were exploring the west from Mexico but Im not sure exactly which peoples were involved as the conquistadors searched for gold and riches. anyway the ones that did resist put up a good fight and drove the Spanish out a few times before they were subdued. yes I heard the navajo as well were also raiders of the pueblo people come harvest time if my mind serves me well. the Noahs Ark story is wonderful but equally problematic. if it was a world wide flood that would mean animals would have to be gathered from all over the world. then the animals sort of all co-operated in the adventure. then there is the issue of clean and unclean animals and species that need water to survive like hippos who would not survive a flood like this. then there are the insects which are not it seems specifically mentioned. I also think if GOD was so upset w humans he could have just struck them down w.o killing all the other innocent creatures. and then there is Noah's age put at around 600 yrs old. ps. I think the tower of babel was the Ziggurat in ancient Sumeria because the dating of the flood at 4,500 BC is when this civilization was building such structures. I read that the flood story from the bible made its way around the world in ancient times and maybe responsible for giving birth to the hindu versions among other but im really not sure on this as the earth has had many floods thru time. anyway you sure stirred up the pot w this one. One of my best friends is named Noah.
gconeyhiden - I like this multi-media interactive magazine format. It gives an opportunity to expand the subject for those who are interested. The Pimas and Maricopas were not pueblos. They lived in little huts like a Hogan. They were dug in and then covered with a low roof. Their first European contact was with Father Kino, an Italian Jesuit. He had no military escort like the Spanish Franciscans. They welcome him as a Father and even had a legend/prophesy that a "father" would come from far away and bring them good news some day (or something like that). They listened to his advice, used his irrigation and cultivation techniques, made more comfortable houses, built some beautiful missions (all volunteer), started raising livestock, and going to church regularly. Otherwise, they stayed the same gregarious people they had always been.
The Spanish were not interested in the area until after he established a "Christian" community there. The Franciscans were not pressed to convert the heathens there, and that kept the military away. Gold was found in the area, but these tribes just let the Spanish go after it and minded their business as usual. The Apaches harassed the Spaniards relentlessly. They stole their horses, barbecued their donkeys, and left the dead or wandering around in the desert whenever they could.
Again, thanks for your interest and your input. It is here for those who may enjoy it, and has stimulated a desire for further study. I really believe our country will fare well if we take some steps towards a people who love this land more than the powers that be do. They believe this land is sacred, and we are defiling it. We should learn as well how to "Leave a soft footprint".
always here to learn something new. glad somebody found peace thru all the turmoil. I have come to believe that the question we should be asking ourselves isnt wether or not GOD in the bible exists but wether or not we can see the sacredness of the earth and respect it accordingly. this is a much easier concept and it has a universal message we all need to learn . thanks for the info.
hi again, yeah my error was based on the idea that the Pima are related to the Hohokam and Casa Grande and other structures which i visited long ago. this is why i love to read about the peoples of america. its very interesting the way their many tribes sometimes split off and sometimes joined other tribes to become one.
gconeyhiden - I really appreciate your input. It is a refreshing change from "interesting hub". It would be nice if more writers took advnntage of the opportunity to expand the subject.
Now, many fundamentalist Christians may not agree. I am an American, and as such, have learned to recognize the right of others to be free of my convictions. I agree with you in this regard . . . we should be able to suspend our personal theological understanding of "deity" and recognize that the earth is precious and unique. The natural world ought to be held in high esteem by all faiths, creeds and philosophies. I cringe when I hear a Christian brother claim to be financially blessed by God when the blessing came from a destructive development project that destroyed the last inkling of a certain type of habitat (and several endangered species) in the area. The devil won't be happy until we replace every blade of grass with Astro Turf.
We don't really know what happened to all of the Pueblo dwellers. Their water sources disappeared and the weather changed (we think). I know very little about the tribes you mentioned. What I know about the Pimas and Maricopas, I learned from my Mom dragging us around when we lived in Tucson. It was her strategy to have us learn as much as we could about our new town (Air Force family) so we would appreciate where we were. It worked. I like everyplace I have ever lived except Montgomery Alabama, but I had an exceptionally hard time in school there. It is pretty there
Anyway, I don't see that you made an error. We are catching up with knowlege that is almost lost. Even recognized historians get things mixed up when it comes to Native American culture and relationships between and within the various tribes. It is a study I plan to continue.
Again, thank you so much for your rich comments and welcome participation. You are an inspiration.
Thank you for writing such an informative hub. I appreciate learning the Native American views of the Great Flood. Its definitely eye opening, especially with respect to the formation of the Grand Canyon. I love the watercolor. Nice job writing such a well researched hub!
LauraGSpeaks - I am glad you enjoyed the story. Thanks for coming by and giving me some encouragement. I have more Native American stuff on the way.
Excellent commentary on Noah's Flood, Chip, well done!
I would also like to say that the selection of pictures and art-work that augment your article is superb!
You asked in the "Poll" question above, "Do you think the First Nation Americans are treated fairly today?"
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I did not vote on this issue, but am trying to formulate an opinion, even as we speak. Before I do, I would like to hear what you think.
Best wishes - C.J. Sledgehammer
P.S. Voted up and awesome! :0)
CJ Sledgehammer - Thanks for giving this a gander, and expanding the subject. That is what an interactive magazine is all about.
I am glad to tell you what I think about the plight of Native Americans. It is nearly impossible for a citizen of the first nation to live a totally traditional lifestyle. An individual or small group may have the skills, but success depended on the group, and tribal relationships that were consciously destroyed by the Americans of the day. Nowadays, there are successful tribes like the Seminole, Comanche, Cherokee and Sioux (and on) who have managed to maintain some semblance of their Identity, preserve oral history, and revive language and customs. They do well because they have casinos, golf courses, hotels, real business, etc. They distribute profits equally among the people, and in the case of the Seminoles in Florida, quite a few live traditionally in the Everglades, although they were originally from the lower southeast and were driven down here by the army. The tribes I mentioned, as well as many others are holding their own by their own wherewithal and fortitude. They truly are noble people who will not be denied whether they are treated fairly or not.
On the other hand many of the tribes< including some with successful factions were driven into virtual wastelands with little or no resources or opportunities. The only hope to improve one’s chances is to leave the reservation and tribe to assimilate with the greater culture in another part of the country.
We would do well, and I believe the Lord will bless our efforts if we sit down with the Native Americans and attempt to make amends for the atrocious way we dealt with them. As in the case of Father Kino, they Pima and Maricopa were ripe to respond to the gospel. Early European settlers and Americans didn't really bother about that, they just started shooting.
You're an outstanding writer of excellent hubs on fascinating topics, regardless of whether or not people agree with their conclusions.
As regards this hub, the legend of a cataclysmic flood is universal in every culture, so, there is a core of truth in the legend. It's only the details that differ.
My only question regarding it is: if a free-flowing river couldn't carve out a canyon in a million years, then how can a flood do it in a mere forty days?
A million years is a really long time---but, the official scientific timetable for the formation of the Grand Canyon is at least 17 million years! And water is a force who's erosive capability is greater than many people realize.
So, while I don't cavalierly dismiss the flood legends, I haven't ruled out the role of erosion, either. As usual, the truth is probably somewhere between the extremes. Most likely, canyons like the Grand Canyon came from a combination of flood and erosion.
But, that's just my stream of thought.
Regardless, this is a gem of a hub.
Voted way up!
Charles Hilton - What a great comment. I am not looking for agreement with this one. You have made my effort a success! I appreciate your point of view and thank you for sharing it.
Here is my best answer your question about the flood vs. erosion. In the biblical account, before the flood there was a firmament above and water below. According to the story it didn’t rain. There was no weather. I don't know what a firmament is, but I get a picture of a terrarium. When God gave the word, the sky let loose (here the birds pulled it down), and released the water from underground. I am making the conjecture that the force of the water being released from underground, laden with debris, cut that crater.
I am not trying to win converts, there are plenty of folks on that task. I was stimulated and inspired by fundamentalist skeptics. I appreciate your attitude. It is not skeptical or oppositional. I enjoy talking to you about it, but would never argue. I am just an artist, not a scientist.
Ah ha ha, what a great write to muse upon Sir Curry! I have heard many history lessons passed down by the Native Americans, or Only True Americans?
I have a twisted root of a Cotton Wood tree that passed between one stone at a time, or did it shoot out like the strike of a rattling asp that swam the rising waters as I've seen them do? and become knotted and twisted in it's early years as it was tender but the falling rocks were hard and battered it to it's shape,dented, bent but yet straight?
I haven't a clue,
as it's older and may,
be wiser than I and you?
It's walked with me many a mile for a decade and two.
Many who see it ask to buy it, but nay I say, it was a gift to give a gimp a lift on up hill climbs,
to grasp at the wind,
stopping to rub his chin,
Marveling at the layers,
that are in the walls of the mountains,
And whisper a few prayers,
To the creator, the only one,
Who really knows.
Along the way I wonder,
It's in the end, that I'll know,
Peace,
A very good write that got all the buttons,
I'll see you there,
dust
I'm glad you liked your present. I have a good reputation for knowing the right gift. I lack in many other ways (I often forget the occasion). but I am cool with that. It will not always be so.
I appreciate that you reciprocated with a poem, or psalm, or spiritual song. It is a proper way to greet the brethren, and it was not lost on me. Thanks!
Hay WD, I have not checked on your hubs for awhile and I thought I would check this one out...since I also lived in the west and have hiked all over the Grand Canyon I know much of what you speak of...even though I was not aware of these accounts by all these different tribes! You did a great job on this!
I also have been nagged by the Holy Spirit to get in contact with you about doing some projects together, so I feel we should see how we may be able to make this happen! Send me a email on your take on this!
Yeah, the peaceful tribes of the southwest are very interesting people. When Father Kino arrived with the gospel, they said, "We have been waiting for you. Tell us the news."
I was birthed in Ray of Pinal county, better than 6 decades back. A self sufficient mining town, they through us out and dug it up along with Sonora, a town of Braceros, so rich in culture, I can still see the fancy dress of the hat dancers and Mariachi bands on Cinco De Mayo, so those of us from there are from a place if returned would be floating 3,000 ft in the air, now no place is my home, I often look at a copper penny and wonder if it was the yard in which I played, one never knows. Got a free jungle tour 2 an 1/2 times and stayed in California after coming back here to my Dads and he got 2 others and me jobs in the mine, but folks didn't put much punkin' in baby killers. So back to cally 'til the King riots and the sand in my veins called me back to the promised land. As a kid to now I've traveled most every crook and cranny of this state, and visited 21 of 21 federal Reservations.
It is truely God's Country.
50 Cal - It truly is the place with the most beautiful sunset. Of course people who haven't seen it might argue for Florida or the Bahamas.
People are forever tearing up the ground.
There must have been a number of very serious floods in Earth's history and one of then is probably remembered in the Noah story.
This American angle is very interesting. And the scenery looks beautiful!
Trish_M - Thank you for your input. Isn't this a sweet story? Whatever case, the Maricopa took it to heart and became a gentle people. They could get rough if they had to, but they are still very polite, humble, and hospitable.
Of course the Maricopa are not the only tribe that believe in a world wide flood, many indigenous people did, along with the Sumerians.
Highvoltage! - Good to see you. I guess almost everyone has a flood story, even skeptics of divine intervention.
Very interesting take, WD. Although not a believer myself, I am still a history buff and always enjoy the Native American's myths about the world. So where did they say water drained away to after the great flood? :)
SSSSS
Randy Godwin - I'm cool with that. It is still a perfect legend. It kept the kids in line. The adults, too.
As far as the water? I will have to look in to it further, but I think a friendly snake from the east drank it up and spit it out in Georgia where it made five ponds full of bass and such
LOL! Mind if I use that legend?
SSSSS
It goes so far back . . . it is common knowledge.
Wow! You must be older and crustier than I imagined! :P
SSSSS
I've been hip since hip was hep.
I believe that the rhythms of the earth and the universe are the actions of a creator but this causes all of those natural occurrences and disasters that can explained by "science". That being said Noah's great flood I believe was the result of the ice in the north and south receding, and sea levels rising. This also would have caused many unusual weather patterns all across the world as it warmed. It will probably happen again many years from now. Great hub though I love Native American lore.
Chrisindellicati - Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject. I am glad you feel comfortable and expanded the subject. It would be a tough case to take to trial from any position . . . eye witnesses are scarce. I love Native American lore as well, and think we eliminated or rejected too much valuable knowledge and wisdom during the take over.
I visited your site. The reader will do well to give you one too. You have looked into the past before!
For anyone TRULY interested in The ACTUAL Truth, PLEASE DO take some time out in these web links below - THE REAL NOAH'S ARK HAS BEEN FOUND AND VERIFIED BETWEEN AD 1960 AND AD 1994 - Here :
http://www.ArkDiscovery.com/Noah%27s_Ark.htm
http://WyattMuseum.com/Noahs-Ark-08.htm
Anyhow, before anyone studies The Facts above, please consider :
HOW would we KNOW EXACTLY what "Gopher Wood" IS ???
Scholars and guessers and Hebrew experts for centuries have TRIED to figure out which TREE was The Gopher Wood Tree (Go For Wood, This Ship's gonna take 120 years to build)...
No-one ever translated these words correctly (Gopher Wood).
BECAUSE The REAL Ark HAS been found, we NOW KNOW what Gopher Wood IS - Amen †
" † CROSS-LAMINATED PLYWOOD † " - NO growth rings in THAT wood !!!
NEVER RAINED BEFORE THE FLOOD - 4356 years ago, as of AD 2012.
Lastly, forget about the personal glory seekers, wasting their time up in the Ararat glacier - HONESTLY - "How WOULD the animals climb down the side of THAT Mountain ???" Durrr Gee Olly.
http://www.ArkDiscovery.com/Noah%27s_Ark.htm
http://WyattMuseum.com/Noahs-Ark-08.htm
† Matthew 24 : 37 †
"But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
Sorry, arkdiscovery.com must be a lower case only url server :
Here's the correct url (enjoy)
tillsontitan Level 7 Commenter 6 months ago
I believe in the flood. Your hub about the American side of it is very interesting. I agree that it shows the great flood did happen, not just in Europe, but worldwide. However, you interpret it or whatever you call "God", something happened. God bless. Voted up and interesting.